Guess I'll Go Eat Worms

[kevin_standlee]

It would appear that I am part of what's wrong with the Hugo Awards and it would be much better if I just died already.

Not much else I can say about things like this. I contemplated whether I should give him more publicity, but I figure if I promote people who mostly agree with me like Scalzi yesterday, it's only fair to give some time to someone who deeply disagrees with me and is willing to make an argument for it. Heck, I don't even disagree with everything he said.

Comments

[howeird]

Quite a lengthy discussion of discussions of discussions. I think he was saying all of us Baby Boomers should just die already, he was only naming you as an obstructionist who uses nefarious skills he does not have, in the promotion of Pure Evil.

He does make some good points, but the one he misses is that if he wants Hugo noms to more closely echo his tastes, he needs to do some work to draft more people like himself into the process. At least he has done the Worldcon supporting member thing, a step in the right direction for this. We do need more young fans, IMHO.

Remind me next year to nominate his post for Best Fan Writer and Best Related Work.

[beamjockey.livejournal.com]

Please don't die.

[teroyks.livejournal.com]

You know what they say—if both sides of the debate attack you for being too far on the other side, you must be doing something right.

[kalimac.livejournal.com]

It's Seventh Fandom all over again. Breathe deeply, and this too shall pass.

[daveon.livejournal.com]

There's some thought provoking stuff in there, especially on the nature of online fandom versus traditional fandom. But the thing is, he pretty much comes out and says that online fandom doesn't need conventions and the sense of community that gave fandom a way to come together and exist in the first place. Which leaves me wondering what in the hell he does actually want. I had a strong sense, at the end, that he was basically saying - I want my cake and I want to eat it but I don't have any cake and I'm not sure which one I want anyway.

Finally, and the bit that is royally starting to piss me off with all of these discussions is this line: it also positively reeks of racial and economic privilege as those demanding silence invariably seem to be male, white, middle-class and North American. which leads to this: I want a Hugo Award that is socially, politically and culturally inclusive but I feel that the debate, as it is currently conducted, is not exactly helping anyone to bring this future about.

Firstly, to coin a phrase, I can do bugger all about being White and Middle Class. I'm 44 years old and science fiction when I was growing up was a very White Middle Class kind of thing. I can't help who or what I am, but I will be buggered if I have to apologise for it because somebody else seems to be guilty about it.

Secondly, the actual problem with the second clause is that while you have a goal of a Hugo that is more inclusive, socially, politically and culturally... if you can't articulate what that means - and based on this lengthy polemic, I'd suggest that is the case, then you can't have a constructive debate because you don't know what the hell you're debating. Which is really at the crux of this discussion.

To whit: people running around saying the Hugo's are broken, but being singularly unable to actually explain why in anything other than vague terms that they are not comfortable with them. That, in and of itself, speaks volumes.

[lisa-marli.livejournal.com]

It all really boils down to - "You Didn't Nominate What I Wanted" Thus "The Process is Broken".
Happens every year. And because Kevin keeps pointing this out "HE MUST BE AT FAULT."
No, you are Not at Fault! Sorry for shouting but it needs to be.
And the system isn't broken. As a White Middle Class Female, I can state, I nominated for what I wanted - Not all of them made the Final List - But there it is. I will then go vote. I probably will buy a Supporting Membership in London because I like nominated and voting for Hugos. And there is that nifty Hugo package, and supporting a good con.
The Hugos are What We, the Supporters and Attendees of Worldcon, want them to be. We voted the rules and we made the nominations. If you don't like the way it is done, Go Make Your Own Lawn! There can always be more awards.

[jeff-morris.livejournal.com]

Honestly...if all this does every year is raise your blood sugar levels and blood pressure in general, let it go. I admire your dedication and your ability to express all this so well, but it's not worth the frustration I see you go through this time every year.

And when you've reached the end of your rope... http://youtu.be/GEdb46IrFDk

[wild-patience.livejournal.com]

Sigh. It was certainly very wrong of him to attack you personally and publicly. I can't recall hearing of you ever mocking anyone or acting as he claims.

The Hugo awards are what they are: a popular award voted by those who buy memberships in the Worldcon. They're not juried or have significant qualifiers other than those stated in the guidelines. They're what people want to read. I happen to have actually read the works that he singles out as mentioning of no interest to him (the newest Bujold, the McGuire/Grant, Saladin's, and Scalzi's) and I found them all great reads. They were entertaining. I'd be happy to see any of them win the award.

Maybe he should go hang out with the Pulitzer crowd and complain that he doesn't like how they operate.

[yourbob.livejournal.com]

Sorry.

It's all a fancy way of saying that nothing he liked got nominated and so it must be "evil (tall)Kevin"s fault because 1100 people disagree with him and even though he "tried" by doing some story pics in public but his audience is too small and he's not influential enough and doesn't want to bother showing up to help "fix" things so everyone nominates his way, so he'll bitch and attack Kevin and take his toys and go home.

He's not interested in the Hugo Awards, he's upset that he can't have everyone think the same as him.

I WON'T be nominating him for a writing award. All I saw was okay grammar and spelling. Nothing new, originally phrased, or helpful.