Why Is This a Difficult Concept?

[kevin_standlee]

I just replied to this comment complaining about how you have to join Worldcon in order to vote for the Hugo Awards, which led off with "But I don't have to pay to vote for my government officials." This is not the first time that I've heard someone trot this out. I'll repeat here what I said there:

That's right, you don't. That's because "paying membership dues" is not one of the requirements for being a citizen of your country. But WSFS isn't a country. It's a club. If you want to join a club, you have to meet that club's membership requirements.

Why is the concept of having to pay membership dues to be a member of a club, and having to be a member of a club in order to vote on things that club decides, such a difficult concept for some people? Are these people who have never in their lives joined a club or society, have never had to pay membership dues, and simply assume that if the word "vote" is involved, it must be free to anyone who wants it just because voting for public officials doesn't have a direct cost associated with it?

I actually understand the "It costs too much" complaint. That can be translated as "The amount you're charging for membership is more than the value I place on the things I get from that membership." There's nothing inherently wrong with that; it's an economic value judgment like every other decision we make about what to buy or not buy. It's what sounds to me like whining that "but I want it, so it shouldn't cost me anything!" that gets on my nerves, because it's childish.

Comments

[gridlore.livejournal.com]

I just asked if this person paid taxes. You do pay, in many ways, for the ability to vote for government offices.

[howeird]

One can vote in government elections whether or not one pays taxes. It's not a requirement. There were three years when I did not pay taxes and didn't even set foot in the USA, and still voted.

[gridlore.livejournal.com]

Do you ever buy anything that has sales tax added? Own a car? Next time you fill up read the notice about how much of that charge is actually state and federal taxes.

It's also a legal requirement for all U.S. citizens and those with permanent residence status who earned any income to file a tax return. Failure to do so can result in jail time.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

You may be being a bit too harsh. Say you live in a state that doesn't have sales tax like Oregon, and you don't earn enough to owe income tax; you can still vote, even though you've paid no taxes. (Yes, I know there are other taxes, and property tax is hard to avoid, too, directly or indirectly.) Howeird talks of spending the entire year outside of the USA, which is one of the few ways I can think of avoiding all US taxes of any sort. Taxation and voting are not directly coupled. Some people vote without paying taxes; others pay tax without voting.

[howeird]

The fact that most people who vote pay taxes doesn't mean one must pay taxes to vote. When was the last time you were required to show a tax receipt in order to get a ballot? Never.

One more time: I worked overseas for less than taxable wages for three years. I did not owe (or pay) a single cent in any kind of taxes to the United States, or any of its constituent government entities. I voted by mail in one Presidential election and several state and local elections from my overseas locations.

It's also a legal requirement for all U.S. citizens and those with permanent residence status who earned any income to file a tax return
This is not true. It is only required if you earned enough money to pay taxes, or if you want a refund for taxes withheld.

[timill]

I pay sales taxes in the US and I don't get to vote...


That's because I'm a UK citizen and live in the UK currently.

Even if I moved to the US and began paying all the taxes I still wouldn't be able to vote unless I 'joined the club' by taking out US citizenship.