kevin_standlee (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
kevin_standlee) wrote2005-09-05 12:21 pm
kevin_standlee) wrote2005-09-05 12:21 pm
Feedback Session; Worldcon & NASFiC Timing
After completing the "tour," I went to the Feedback Session. I'm the wrong person to report on this, as I personally had a wonderful time, am totally honored by my experience, and continue to thank CascadiaCon for their hospitality. But other people had less-pleasant experiences, mostly having to do with the "Biohazard" all-night parties (raves, apparently), the spread-out, split-site nature of the convention facilities, and with what was perceived (I think) as a general disorganized air about the convention, particularly on Thursday. CascadiaCon, for their part, was hampered by a critical lack of volunteers at many levels, from top management down to gophers.
I observed, as I've done before, that NASFiCs have many of the disadvantages of a Worldcon (one-shot, no history, no coherent marketing, relatively expensive) and few of the advantages of one (Worldcon is something many fans actively want to attend, while NASFiC is a "consolation prize" at best; many of the "usual suspect" middle and top management recruits go to Worldcon if they possibly can do so; even those who do go to both are terribly distracted and apt to give NASFiC lower priority).
A factor affecting western North America is Burning Man, which is Labor Day weekend, and which draws off a lot of fannish types. I know that ConJose had difficulty recruiting some very likely people who "always go to Burning Man."
In the Southeastern USA in particular but actually affecting the continent as a whole, and even with worldwide implications, is Dragon*Con. When D*C and Worldcon/NASFiC were on different weekends, there were a fair number of people who would go to both; however, when faced with the choice of one or the other, they pick D*C for a variety of reasons. I lot of professionals of various sorts, including artists and dealers, go to D*C even if it's more expensive and difficult for them, because that's where the money is. I know of one webcomic artist who lives here in the Seattle area and who at least of couple of us members of CascadiaCon asked to attend NASFiC. She's constantly saying how little money she has and how dire her personal situation is, and yet rather than come to the local-to-her con at Sea-Tac, she went off to D*C because that's where the people and money are.
I think it's time we Worldcon (and NASFiC) runners seriously consider abandoning the Labor Day weekend and move our target dates to weekends in August. We already have had several recent Worldcons, including this year's, on weekends in August, and it doesn't seem to have negatively affected attendance. The historical reasons we held Worldcon over the weekend ending with the first Monday of September are becoming increasingly irrelevant; maybe it's time to abandon some long-held opinions.
I observed, as I've done before, that NASFiCs have many of the disadvantages of a Worldcon (one-shot, no history, no coherent marketing, relatively expensive) and few of the advantages of one (Worldcon is something many fans actively want to attend, while NASFiC is a "consolation prize" at best; many of the "usual suspect" middle and top management recruits go to Worldcon if they possibly can do so; even those who do go to both are terribly distracted and apt to give NASFiC lower priority).
A factor affecting western North America is Burning Man, which is Labor Day weekend, and which draws off a lot of fannish types. I know that ConJose had difficulty recruiting some very likely people who "always go to Burning Man."
In the Southeastern USA in particular but actually affecting the continent as a whole, and even with worldwide implications, is Dragon*Con. When D*C and Worldcon/NASFiC were on different weekends, there were a fair number of people who would go to both; however, when faced with the choice of one or the other, they pick D*C for a variety of reasons. I lot of professionals of various sorts, including artists and dealers, go to D*C even if it's more expensive and difficult for them, because that's where the money is. I know of one webcomic artist who lives here in the Seattle area and who at least of couple of us members of CascadiaCon asked to attend NASFiC. She's constantly saying how little money she has and how dire her personal situation is, and yet rather than come to the local-to-her con at Sea-Tac, she went off to D*C because that's where the people and money are.
I think it's time we Worldcon (and NASFiC) runners seriously consider abandoning the Labor Day weekend and move our target dates to weekends in August. We already have had several recent Worldcons, including this year's, on weekends in August, and it doesn't seem to have negatively affected attendance. The historical reasons we held Worldcon over the weekend ending with the first Monday of September are becoming increasingly irrelevant; maybe it's time to abandon some long-held opinions.
no subject
While I like burning one less vacation day on a Labor Day WorldCon, I think the "date" discussion is due, and I'm looking forward to seeing the results of LA's experiment with a Wed-Sun schedule (even if I may not like the results). Of course it takes away my excuse for not going to Burning Man (the good excuse, not the "I don't want to spend the money" excuse) of "Alkali dust, or luxury hotel? Easy decision."
Fourth of July?
DragonCon is the big suck that pulls many away. BM has a certain type of fan that it pulls away, but it actually pulls more panelist types away than attendees
Chris
Re: Fourth of July?
no subject
While we got some good feedback about programming, I'm really inclined to agree with this. We would have had a few more good panelists if we weren't against DragonCon. It has the advantage of (a) money and (b) not really caring which authors they get. Unlike Worldcon (and NASFiC), they aren't the gathering of record, so if they don't get certain authors, they just get other ones. I say let them have the weekend if they really want it. Though I still prefer an August weekend.
no subject
Its a long weekend for us and usually not much else is going on.
I know many teachers and students have already started school before Labour Day and its hard to get away.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2005-09-10 10:35 pm (UTC)(link)I also wonder how differnt Dragon Con attendees can be, if Anne McCaffrey can be a guest there - implying book readers attending.
James
no subject
Besides, it's the right of all Worldcon members -- not just the American ones -- to vote on where to hold the Worldcon. Every single member of the Worldcon has a right to vote, regardless of where he or she lives.
But the important thing here is that the voters can (in practice) only vote for bids that actually file. That means committees have to form bids. And bids need to be viable, and they should be for viable Worldcons. I think it's pretty clear that having D*C out there on Labor Day weekend drags away people who would otherwise attend Worldcon. Similarly, Burning Man has at least a regional impact on anything happening in Western North America over the NA Labor Day weekend.
Note that I'm not opposed to Dragon*Con, which clearly is doing something right. I don't agree with everything they do -- and reports of their Masquerade should make their organizers hang their heads in shame compared to the show we put on in Glasgow -- but D*C is serving a vast crowd that happens to contain a bunch of people who would, given the opportunity to attend both D*C and Worldcon, would attend both.
I know Worldcon "colonized" Labor Day first; that's irrelevant. Worldcon organizers -- by which I mean people who organize Worldcon bids -- need to consider what's best for the health of the Worldcon as an institution, and right now, I think it would be better for Worldcon to move to early August as a regular thing.
Now, regarding the voters deciding: Next year, they can. The Denver in 2008 bid is bidding for August 6-10 (Wednesday-Sunday), while the Chicago in 2008 bid is for the "traditional" Labor Day weekend (September 4-8). (Columbus is also bidding for Labor Day, but is nearly in default right now and is falling off the political radar.) The voters have a choice of sites and of dates, although of course they may choose one bid or the other based on completely different factors.
no subject
I think D*C is what Worldcon would tend to become if Worldcon was anchored in one spot and pursued a growth strategy.