Conventions: Members Versus Customers

[kevin_standlee]

The post-Eastercon discussions going on in eastercon and elsewhere include the question of those people who attend conventions viewing themselves solely as "paying customers." I suggested we may need to start printing a fine-print contract on membership materials, the way sporting events and concerts do on their tickets, such as:

THIS IS NOT A TICKET. You are a member of this convention. This event is being organized entirely by volunteers who are working without compensation and who had to pay for their own memberships and travel expenses. While the organizers will make a reasonable effort to present this event in the way it is described in its written materials, they cannot guarantee that all things will happen as planned. By purchasing this membership you explicitly acknowledge that all functions are subject to change or cancellation with or without notice for any reason whatsoever.

This is only a rough first effort, but I think you get the idea. It is a little sad that I can say that I'm quite serious that we may really need to do this or face threats of litigation for "false advertising" and "breech of contract" with attendees.

Comments

[bovil.livejournal.com]

The wording is a bit distant, but like many social (and business) rituals, it's a controlled neutral statement, and a way to manage stress.

Lord knows nobody ever gets stressed out over stuff going at conventions.

[bovil.livejournal.com]

No.

Really, no.

Everything else is stressful. Having a canned, neutral greeting helps you avoid dumping your stress on an unsuspecting bystander.

My "What can I do for you?" (my standard greeting follow-up at work, regardless of how well I know the person asking) is just a cheerier version. That way only my immediate co-workers have to deal with me being snarky and pissed-off because work-related phone calls kept interrupting my sleep.

[debgeisler.livejournal.com]

Eggsackly the way I feel about it. There are times when exhaustion hits...and stress...and annoyance...and, and, and. Were it not for my early training in courtesy, I'd snarl like hell at people.

Possibly people like you and I come from another planet. If so, that's where I'd rather be.

(And the reason I don't say "Can I help you?" [which might be less formal] is because of Sister Mary Leona's ruler.)

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

Wow, I wish I'd been there to see the situations you describe. I'm sorry you were treated that way. Deb is right that we don't like it to happen that way. And while I'm not rejecting your own experience, I know I've never been treated that way as a volunteer, and I've volunteered at all levels, including volunteering to help people who I don't know personally. I sure hope you don't think I've condescended to you when you've worked for and with me, for instance.

I think part of the problem is size. Managing a Potlatch/SMOFcon-sized convention is radically different from a BayCon or certainly a Worldcon, and involved different "coping strategies" from the people working on them, I think. After all, we can run Registration at a Potlatch by just setting people's name badges out on a table and trusting people to take care of themselves. I don't think that would work well with BayCon or a Worldcon.

[debgeisler.livejournal.com]

So ... your planet's idea of courtesy is to hold your friends at a distance?

How I interact with my friends is my own affair, and I haven't discussed that at any level here.

What I (and bovil) have talked about is how a reversion to courteous rituals in stressful conditions is nearly automatic -- in part because of my upbringing, and in part because I know I have a short temper when I'm overly tired.

If I have time and any kind of ease, I interact with people differently -- well, at least people I like. With people I don't like, that courteous mask stays in place 100% of the time.

Way to go. OK, so that's why I felt so abused and unappreciated when I volunteered at a worldcon. I certainly won't do that again.

I'm sorry -- did you volunteer to me?

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

...in part because I know I have a short temper when I'm overly tired.

Me, too, and for another factor I now know to be blood sugar-related. On the day before Interaction, I'd arrived at the SECC just off the train from York, found no place from which I could work, knew I had to eat something or risk keeling over, but also knew that there were a whole bunch of Events issues piling up even as I stood there. I grabbed one of the not-too-great sandwiches from the shop and -- there being no place to sit, went and sat on the floor in a corner of an SECC hallway. As I sat there desperately trying to eat quickly without choking -- I just wanted about five or ten minutes -- an otherwise well-meaning fan whom I know came over and started cheerfully burbling at me.

It's not his fault that I snapped at him. Just too many things had piled up at once, and he had the misfortune to be the straw dropping on this camel's back. He was certainly stunned by the loud nature of my outburst -- I can get really angry -- which was all out of proportion to the situation.

Knowing how much trouble I can be, I work very hard to try and keep it under control, and possibly I end up coming across as a bit distant in stressful circumstances.

[debgeisler.livejournal.com]

No, I didn't volunteer to you personally. But I volunteered to people who do what you're advocating and explaining the reasons for. And now I know why they do it.

Well, at least why *some* people might do so -- because that is one of their stress-coping mechanisms. (Some people might do it because they're asea for other reasons, too.) I try never to assume that everybody has the same triggers.

Your separation of friends from "friendly acquaintances" (or whatever you want to call the relationship I have with the people who said "May I help you?") is also puzzling.

Well, I don't know about your relationships, and so please don't think my comments should apply to you, or to them. But you asked how I treat my friends -- and that term, for me, applies to a much closer relationship that perhaps for others.

Because of my experiences in fandom, I've met, quite literally, thousands of people. My acquaintances of the friendly sort number in the hundreds. But my friends -- the ones I know well and who know more than the public me -- constitute a smaller subset of those "friendly acquaintances."

I try to treat everyone at cons as friends, whether I know them or not.

I'm glad that works for you. Me? I'm not going to abuse total strangers the way I do my friends.

Treating everyone as well as I know how is important to me, too. And sometimes, that means falling back on courtesy, lest the dueling begin.

[debgeisler.livejournal.com]

But I would have thought it clear that that's not what I meant by "treating everyone at cons as friends."

I just mean talking to people in a friendly manner, rather than in a polite stranger manner. Surely the difference is clear.

No, the difference is not clear. The difference is perception-based, and our perceptions may vary. Different people see things differently. And, in fact, what you see as "polite stranger manner" may be all someone's capable of doing for anybody at a particular time.

But it is a withdrawal, and if it's a widespread tactic I think being treated as strangers is a significant part of what makes con attendees think of themselves as ticket-holders rather than members of something.

Don't assume it is a "tactic" -- tactics are aimed at winning battles; "coping mechanisms" are designed to just get you through something.

My biggest problem with your comments here is that you talk about "conrunner language" as if anyone who is a conrunner acts in this particular way.

I've heard others speak similarly of convention runners and SMOFs -- that we are all X or we are Y or that some behavior or attitude is "just the way all SMOFS act." Given how much of myself I've put into some conventions, your stereotyping has managed to hit one of my hot buttons.

[debgeisler.livejournal.com]

I think you do know the difference.

Think all you want. You do not know me, so you can't possibly judge my knowledge, reactions, or perceptions with any reliability. (But I'm a bit unclear on what I'm supposed to know the difference *between.*)

Don't stereotype me.

Wouldn't dream of it. I have no idea if you are affiliated with some clearly identifiable group.

What interests me is that you talk about "conrunner language" while professing to be a convention runner yourself. So, if it's universal, you must do it, too. If it's not universal, classifying it as "conrunner language" is slapping an unfair label on convention runners.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

Like bovil, I usually say, "What can I do for you?" and mean it approximately the same way as "May I help you?"

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

It is polite. But it's the politeness of strangers.

Just out of curiosity, do you consider "What can I do for you?" to be equally distant? When my co-workers call me on the phone, that's what I ask them, and I don't consider it particularly distant.

Switch places with me. You're now the one behind the desk, and you know me personally. I've come to the front of the queue. There are twenty or thirty people behind me, and I'm about the five-hundredth person you've had to deal with today. What do you do? Do you shoot the breeze with me or do you process me through the queue as fast as you can?

Now on the other hand, you have a point about some things. I attended a convention that had a strict must-show-government-photo-ID policy. (I find such policies obnoxious, BTW, but that's a slightly different story.) As it happened, the person who processed me at registration did not know me, and I showed my passport without comment. One of the other registration lines had someone I did know personally, and who has, for instance, attended SFSFC Board of Directors meetings and whom I've known for many years. Talking with him and someone else (I didn't know the other person), I said, "Too bad you weren't doing my line; I wouldn't have needed to dig out my passport."

His companion said, "Oh, he should have demanded it no matter what; it's much safer to be consistent about these things."

That's just silly; personally identifying someone because you've known him/her for years is better security than government-issued photo ID.

I tell this story so you don't think I'm advocating keeping people at a distance all the time.

[debgeisler.livejournal.com]

By contrast, I don't like faux personal touches in what's really a business relationship. I hate it when Safeway clerks, instead of giving me the receipt, spend 15 seconds scanning it for my name so they can call me by it.

*snort* We don't have Safeway...but Filene's clerks used to do the same thing...and mispronounce my name every time. Argh.

[bovil.livejournal.com]

I've found most folks regularly involved in running large cons find alternate small cons at which they don't have to volunteer and can let their hair down.

Back in the day, before Minicon shrank, DemiCon was where all the staff went a month after the con to relax and recover. If you wanted to get to know Minicon staffers as people rather than as workers, you went to DemiCon, where the only table they would likely to be at was a card table.

I don't think this is the ethos of staff dealing with ticket holders. If somebody comes to me with business, I want to get that business taken care of (particularly if there's a lot more waiting). I think this is a matter of trying to get a job done regardless of the lack of sleep, the amount of partying done the night before or the chaos going on in the department. Even fabulously-run WorldCons have a huge load of chaos going on.

[debgeisler.livejournal.com]

Do you really say "May I help you?" to your colleagues in your office?

Why yes, especially if I'm in the middle of something. I smile when I say it, but it's also shorthand for "got something going on, so make it quick." My colleagues are pretty fast on the uptake...we're a department of communication, so that kind of coding is understood easily.

[debgeisler.livejournal.com]

Well, then, if you were my colleague, that certainly would communicate to me that you were all business, no friendship.

No, no -- don't mistake me. I don't do this all of the time! That would send a message of cold indifference to some very fine people.

Maybe it's how it's said?