How Not to Handle a Guest

[kevin_standlee]

Other people have already commented on this, and I'm a bit late to the party, but in case you haven't seen it before: United Fan Con 'Uninvites' Peter David.

It appears that he had been invited to be a convention guest (travel expenses paid, no appearance fee), and that the convention had used him in their advertising, but then decided that they couldn't afford his expenses and that paying for the Big Name Media Guests was much more important, so they uninvited him.

The comments are somewhat interesting, including the guy (who acts a bit like a sock-puppet for UFC, but it's hard to say) who claimed that David shouldn't have said anything at all about this, to which I say "rubbish" and think stronger terms.

And there is further nonsense from someone who has no real idea of what she's talking about regarding convention economics -- despite apparently losing her shirt running one -- and seems to think that conrunners are Out To Get Her just because she's a poor little media fan.

Incidentally, because it came up in one of the side conversations regarding this, I would like to remind people that I wrote a while back about where the Worldcon's money goes. ConJose, and most other Worldcons, are pretty open with their finances. I'll send anyone who wants it a copy of ConJose's final budget spreadsheet -- just write to me directly.

Meanwhile, I'd like to remind people that "professional/amateur" and "professionally/amateurishly" are different things -- in fact, they probably form a 2x2 grid. Either kind of event is capable of treating people in either way.

Update, October 23, 1300: UFC reinvited David. I'm not sure if I'm more surprised that they did so under apparently pressure (and money freeing up somewhere else) or that David was willing to come anyway. As he said (more or less), he's coming because of the people who said they were going to UFC to see him, not for UFC's organizers' sake.

Comments

[kshandra]

Meanwhile, I'd like to remind people that "professional/amateur" and "professionally/amateurishly" are different things -- in fact, they probably form a 2x2 grid. Either kind of event is capable of treating people in either way.

Yes, that, exactly. And it goes both ways, too - if the organizers of an event are behaving in a professional manner, they deserve the same treatment in return.

I'm one of the people who get the dmv@burningman bounce. We had a letter come through, some three weeks after the application deadline (Mutant Vehicles go through a pre-screening process before the event), that basically amounted to "O HAI I MAED U A ART CAR." My response, in part, read "Simply because we are a volunteer organization does not mean we don't handle things professionally. If you were attempting to contact the real Department of Motor Vehicles, would you have used l33t-speak?"

[crookedfeet.livejournal.com]

I wondered if you'd pick this up. Part of my problem with the poor little media fan's assertion that UFC doesn't need him, because those people only want to see actors. Then why bother to invite him at all? It's not like he hasn't been at the convention before.
I'm also extremely disturbed by the some apparent sockpuppets of UFC who are apparently popping up on other boards with potentially libelous comments about Mr. David's behavior at other conventions. The other interesting thing is some UFC attendees' comments on Mr. David's post talking about the falling off of attendance, and the direct correlation between that and the con runners' money grubbing. There isn't anything wrong with media cons, but there is a lot wrong UFC's attitude, and I'm not impressed by the behavior of the defender's, not to mention the lack of basic English skills.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

Note that I don't have any particular reason to defend Peter David, although he and the late Carol Kalish did take me out to dinner once (at Marvel Comics' expense) many years ago when he worked for them in Sales and I was a comic book store assistant manager; also, it was partially due to his efforts that we had an official Spider Man appearance at the first convention I ever organized (a comic book show in the shopping mall where I worked).

Nor do I have any particular reason to bash UFC or any media con in particular. Bad behavior is bad behavior, whether it's done by "media" cons or "literary" cons or "fan run" conventions or "professional shows."

[cmdrsuzdal.livejournal.com]

Very poorly handled on UFC's part, of course David had every right to call them out on this.

They definitely picked the wrong guest treat pull this on, too.

[n5red.livejournal.com]

I look at the resources that WorldCon uses and then compare them to something like the LISA Conference. Both are not-for-profit, but the LISA conference is 15x more expensive to attend and the hotel rates are double what WorldCon attendees pay. While I admit that I would like to see the hotel rates go down, the amount that WorldCon provides is simply amazing (or would that be astounding?).

Yeah, I may complain about the cost of WorldCon, but not about the value.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

the amount that WorldCon provides is simply amazing (or would that be astounding?).

Or even Analog? :)

Yes, you're right about the value-for-money of a Worldcon. But I can actually see the point of some people who think it's too expensive. Those people are actually interested in only one aspect of the event, or possibly a small number of pieces. From their point of view, they shouldn't have to pay for anything other than the bit they want. I expect such people are dissatisfied at paying a single price to go into Disneyland if they only want to ride one ride, either.

And let us not just "bash media fans" here -- this same complaint about having to pay for more than you want could be made by, say, fanzine fans who would prefer to hand out in the fan lounge all weekend, or costumers who think the only purpose of the convention is to have the Worldcon Masquerade, or dealers who don't think people should have to pay anything to enter the Dealers Room, or... well, I could go on.

Everyone has their own special interest. Me, I recognize that my membership is paying for the entire experience, and that it's very difficult to pull individual pieces out of it without destroying the overall event.

[shsilver.livejournal.com]

No, fanzine fans should be willing to pay extra to be allowed to hang out in the fanzine lounge, just as gamer fans should be willing to pay extra to hang out in the gaming rooms.

See, you charge the set price for the con and then add special, let's call them tickets, that permit entry to the specialized areas: gaming, filking, fanzine lounge, dealer's room, programming, film room, anime room, art show. That's it...free market cons. If a room can't sustain itself with the tickets it sells, they are effectively "voted off" the con the next year.

[dsmoen.livejournal.com]

Add costumers and I'm in.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

I recall Tom Whitmore putting forward what he called "A Modest Proposal" back before ConFrancisco that each member receive a certain amount of convention scrip -- let's say $150 worth, that being the at-the-door price at the time. Program participants could set a "price" to be paid in scrip to attend their panel (setting it as $0 was okay). Participants could collect from the convention based on how much scrip they collected. (I don't remember the details.) The purpose was to give an outlet for those people who insisted that of course everyone wanted to come see their program item and that naturally they deserved a free membership at least for doing us the favor of being there.

[n5red.livejournal.com]

Can I pay extra to not have filkers?

[kproche.livejournal.com]

...or costumers who think the only purpose of the convention is to have the Worldcon Masquerade,...

No, those would be the people who should be going to Costume-Con.

Real costumers know that the purpose of a WorldCon is to attend all the great parties after one has survived the Masquerade.

:-)

[yourbob.livejournal.com]

Analog?

I think it's more F&SF - a little of everything.

[dsmoen.livejournal.com]

Dang. I've really enjoyed seeing Peter David speak. To me, he always was one of the big guys.

What dorks they were to do that to him.

[edgreen86.livejournal.com]

There are *lots* of ways to shave costs at a Con, as many of the people posting here can relate.

The fact that they choose to cut a guest prior to a Convention shows either a fairly ugly cash flow problem, or a level of incompetence that is rather impressive, in the "oh-look-its-an-iceberg-in-our-way-should-we-do-something"
kind of way.

[jbriggs.livejournal.com]

IMO the only justifiable reason to disinvite an announced guest is if the con was being canceled. Guest expenses should be the first allocated and the last cut, otherwise don't invite the guest.

[trinsf.livejournal.com]

Ugh, ugly situation. I've written in The Drink Tank about the worst con I ever attended, where my husband was the GoH, but half way through the con the money situation for the organizers got so bad they started asking us to pay for things, and ended up leaving us with the hotel bill. I would almost rather have been *uninvited* than have dealt with that -- but then again, if they'd uninvited us, they wouldn't have had a GoH at all, I guess.

[debgeisler.livejournal.com]

That does *not* sound charming. If I were one of the convention's organizers, I would have paid the bills out of my own money, rather than to do that to a guest. (Once, when I was a fan guest at a convention, people kept following me around and asking if I needed more money!)

[trinsf.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think the organizers *were* paying the bills out of their own money. As I remember it, all staff credit cards had been maxed out and were being declined, so the hotel was refusing any more charges on their cards.

Here's part of what I've writen about it:

1. 1994 Conclave, or Convex, or something like that

Anyway, he was invited to be the GoH at a brand new regional con that was being held in Navarre Beach, Florida. I have forgotten the name of the con, but it was Consomething -- Concave, Convex, like that. The con was aimed at a young audience who played the then nascent LARPs, stuff like that, so it was almost entirely an under-30's crowd.

We were on the beach in Florida, in a room being paid for by the con. [...] Though my husband had originally been invited to the con as a comped GoH -- and we had made clear we were on a very tight budget -- sometime late Saturday the staff handler asked if he would pay for the rest of our meals himself and just let them know how much they were, because they were having a "little cash flow problem". We didn't realize how big this problem was until we went to check out and discovered that the con couldn't actually cover the cost of the room, either. (As a note to your readers who may protest that plenty of cons expect guests to pay for their rooms, memberships, etc, I'd like to point out that I have no problem with that if that's made clear up front, but to offer to cover a GoH and then tell them at the end of the con, "Oops, um, sorry, the con chair has maxed out his credit card and can't pay for your room" is the very heart of pesky misrepresentation.)

In the end, we ended up having to pay for the con with part of the rent money, and learned a lesson about new little regional cons and funding. Oh, by the way, I don't think they ever held another one. Problems finding a hotel, or something like that.

[debgeisler.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think the organizers *were* paying the bills out of their own money. As I remember it, all staff credit cards had been maxed out and were being declined, so the hotel was refusing any more charges on their cards.

Oh, my. *sigh* I'm still pretty shocked that any convention would invite a guest and then not cover their expenses (or tell them at the last minute "oops, sorry, changed our minds" for that matter). I was raised to think of guests as, well, the ones who got the best food first, the most comfortable bed, and the hot water before the tank ran out.

[sethb.livejournal.com]

Though that isn't always easy. There was a Hexacon that had to move the GoH's room to the Master Account four times, because Harry kept pulling it off.

[crookedfeet.livejournal.com]

Kevin: I'm sorry if I wasn't clear-I didn't think you were defending Peter David as much as you were decrying the unprofessional way UFC was doing business, as well as some of the ill-considered remarks of one of UFC's defenders. My point was merely to bring up even more unprofessional behavior on UFC's part. My SO is a huge media fan who regularly attends media cons of all kinds, and who has in fact worked on them. I don't think media fans are evil, bad, or not as much of a fan as I am-but I hate the attitude taken by these people.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

Oh, sorry: I didn't think that -- it was just a good conversational hook to declare any potential bias in the situation, lest one of the people who feel offended show up here.

I am, after all, a Notorious Media Fan myself, given that I got my start in comics and made amateur Doctor Who films in college and similarly behaved in Dangerously Non-Literary Ways.

[crookedfeet.livejournal.com]

And they still let you run the business meeting? Gasp! ;)
Actually, now I want a shirt that says Dangerously Non-Literary on it.

[solarbird]

United Fan Con 'Uninvites' Peter David. It appears that he had been invited to be a convention guest (travel expenses paid, no appearance fee), and that the convention had used him in their advertising, but then decided that they couldn't afford his expenses and that paying for the Big Name Media Guests was much more important, so they uninvited him.
THANKS A LOT KEVIN NOW I'M HAVING FLASHBACKS ARGH DIE DIE DIE

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

Eeek, what did I do?

[solarbird]

Oh, I thought you knew about this thing I'm referencing already. Let's just say this isn't the first time I've seen this happen. Ask me in person about it sometime.

But get me drunk first.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

Possibly I do and have mercifully blanked it from my memory. As you say, when there is an opportunity for me to buy you a drink.

[danjite.livejournal.com]

PetuniaCon.

All over again.

Oh well. Seem sto be being kept to one a decade, which isn't that bad.

[redneckotaku.livejournal.com]

I would hold a convention chair over a fire, if any anime convention I staffed, disinvited a guest. I think it is wrong to uninvite a guest at the convention. I know Peter David from the comics world and he is one of the classiest guys in the business. There are some people you don't mess with in the comic convention world and he is one of them.