kevin_standlee: (Bullet Train)
[personal profile] kevin_standlee
My transportation news digest is full of news stories of NIMBYs along the Peninsula here in the Bay Area screaming about the proposed High Speed Rail system approved as Proposition 1A in the last general election. Amazingly, some of them claim to have voted for it without even realizing that of course the line will come up the Caltrain right of way. Of course that means probably having to widen the ROW a little, and yes, that may mean some eminent domain proceedings if land-owners aren't able to reach more equitable solutions. And being a true high-speed line, it means the ROW is going to need to be completely grade-separated. You can't have 300 kph trains crossing at grade!

The most logical way to grade-separate the line would be on an elevated structure, such as similar lines in Japan. NIMBYs scream that this would destroy their cities, and that "they" (defined as "not me!") should tunnel the line to keep it from having the slightest disruption in their nice cozy little neighborhoods, which they like to pretend aren't part of a large urban area. (Anyone who has every tried to walk through Atherton knows about this self-imposed isolation.)

I'm reminded that when BART was being built, it was originally going to go through Berkeley on an elevated structure. The people of Berkeley were outraged. But the voters there actually took responsibility for themselves; they voted to tax themselves an additional amount to pay for the difference between the less-expensive elevated structure and the much-more-expensive subway. Thus BART's Berkeley stations are underground.

These NIMBYs who want to pretend the trains don't exist should vote a property tax upon themselves to fund the huge additional expense (on top of an already incredibly expensive project) of digging a 50-mile-long subway tunnel along the Peninsula. I would respect them much more if they were willing to put their money where their whiny mouths were. As it stands now, I think they're a bunch of little children who think they're living in the country but want to continue to enjoy the benefits of living in a big city. Oh, and I also suspect an underlying subtext: I'm rich and important, so go take your nasty noisy trains and go tear down homes where Poor People live.

Lest anyone think I'm saying that because I'm safely away from the lines myself, I'll add that I campaigned for the route to go close to where I live, via Altamont Pass, Niles Canyon, and Centerville. I think the decision to route the line through Pacheco Pass is a mistake for which people 50 years from now will be cursing the politicians of today. But I'd rather we get a working HSR line built than to destroy it just because I didn't get my own preferred routes.

By the way, there are also people who seem incredibly short-sighted about why high-speed rail lines work. They say things like, "Why build it to San Francisco? Just have everyone get off in San Jose and take Caltrain," or "Stop at SFO; the only reason anyone would take it is if they were going to/from the airport anyway." The whole point of high speed trains is that they allow you to go from city center to city center without time-consuming transfers. Add hours of delay and annoyance with transfers and their entire advantage disappears. Anyone who has used actual working high-speed trains in first world countries (as opposed to the backwater that is the USA) knows this.

Date: 2009-03-03 06:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kevin-standlee.livejournal.com
I can't answer that precisely, not having access to those figures. However, I can compare it to similar lines that I have stood beside in Japan. My general feeling is that the rebuilt, electrified, combined HSR/Caltrain line -- a sensible system would share track, probably with a four-track ROW -- would be less noisy that the existing system. That's because naturally all of the equipment would be electrified, rather than being hauled by growling diesel locomotives.

Actually, the HSR trains will probably not run at the full 300 kph speed down the Peninsula, but they will certainly be faster than the existing max-speed-79-mph trains running there now. I think the noise will either be around the same or less. I certainly didn't think the Shinkansen trains moving on the urban tracks in Tokyo were making any more (or less) noise than the other trains moving through the same station.

Date: 2009-03-03 11:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kalimac.livejournal.com
Quieter, no grade crossings so easier and safer pedestrian crossings ... but they're protesting. WTF?

Date: 2009-03-03 11:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kevin-standlee.livejournal.com
Because there would be an elevated structure destroying their cities, forming a horrible "great wall" dividing their towns, etc., etc. Like I said, if they think it's so rotten, let them pay for the cost of hiding it locally. They're the lucky ones, in that they'll live near enough to the system to be able to use it and get the benefits. It's the people living beyond the system's core who will be paying for it (through taxes to repay the bonds) but only getting very indirect benefits from it.

Date: 2009-03-04 11:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nojay.livejournal.com
Where the shinkansen passes through urban areas in Japan, the track is shielded from the surrounding area by walls. This is only necessary in places where the trains would be running at full speed (i.e. not near the stations). The barriers are not just to suppress noise but also to deal with the problem that at 300km/hr the shockwave from the trains could blow out windows in the nearest houses. Being Japan with its insane land prices there are houses built within ten metres of the shinkansen tracks -- and the shinkansen was there first.

I'm not sure about shared ROW as being a good idea necessarily though. The shinkansen system is as good as it is in part because it doesn't share ROW with anyone. A shared ROW could mean that the HSR schedule could be crippled by work being done on the other non-HSR tracks simply because the tracks run side-by-side. It would also require a lot more switches to route the trains across each other's tracks, and a switch that can take a train transiting it at 300km/hr is a much trickier proposition than a regular track switch. The shinkansen system has few switches in part for this reason, and most of them are close to stations where the trains are not going at full speed.

Date: 2009-03-04 04:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kevin-standlee.livejournal.com
I would only expect there to be track-sharing in terminal areas -- along the Peninsula and near Los Angeles Union Station. In those areas, I also don't expect the trains to be running at their full 300+ kph speed. Simultaneously, the local Caltrain commuter rail system should be upgraded to the same electrification standard as the HSR (probably 25KV OHL, considering current practice), and their speed brought up to the 110 mph standard, which would be "high speed rail" by benighted American standards.

Outside of the terminal areas, HSR definitely needs a dedicated right of way. Otherwise, you get the situation of the initial phase of Eurostar, with the trains having to slog their way in and out of Waterloo over the "classic" lines at significantly reduced speed. By "track sharing," I meant the same way that High Speed 1 HSR lines in the UK will include the domestic services out to Kent as well as the existing trans-channel Eurostar services.

You are of course correct that having the tracks in a shared ROW can lead to a conflict due to maintenance needs. OTOH, looking at the congested areas where the lines need to run, the only sensible place to find the necessary ROW is along the existing rail corridor. That almost certainly will lead to some land takings in some places. Alas, the Southern Pacific (and its successors) did not retain the original wide ROW intended for a four-track main line, nor did they build the remaining 2 km to a terminal in downtown San Francisco over a hundred years ago. Had they done so, things would be much different today.

In some areas along the ROW, there are light-industrial businesses (auto shops and the like; I've had my van repaired at one of them in Belmont) on year-to-year leases. Someday they will be told, "We need the right-of-way back, so we won't renew your lease next time," and they will have to find a new place to work. But all transportation improvement require some disruption. My normal office commute goes through a freeway interchange (I-880/CA-92) that is undergoing a massive multi-year rebuild/improvement. I understand some homes had to be acquired (and razed) to make room for the improvements. My father-in-law's land is bisected by a state highway that almost certainly will be twinned someday, and he'll lose more of his land when it happens. So it's not only railroads that impact landowners.

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