Presents for the Folks Back Home

[kevin_standlee]

I brought back a small number of souvenirs with me from Wales. I couldn't bring much; my bags were overloaded as it is. Anything I got would have to be light weight and small.



We stopped several times at the Starbucks in Carmarthen, where this little fellow seemed to insist that he wanted to see how things work back in the States. Shortly after I got home, I went to my local Starbucks in Fernley (who had wondered what had happened to me) and presented them with this "bearista." They tell me that the whole team loves him and he's fitting in well.



On my final day in Wales, this small dragon joined me in Cardiff. He had to squeeze in to my big bag along with the Bearista for the uncomfortable flight home. On Sunday, I did something I've not done for several years, which is to have breakfast inside the Wigwam Restaurant rather than by take-out. I came in just after opening, when there were no other customers. (A couple others arrived as I was finishing up.) The waitress who normally works then was there (she has my usual order memorized), and smiled as I set the dragon on the table in front of me. When she brought me the bill, I gave the dragon to her and the staff at the Wigwam if they would take care of him. They were happy to do so.

Now, almost everyone with whom I have described my trip were unclear on where this "Wales" place is, and not surprisingly, think of that entire landmass called Great Britain as "England." However, almost everyone I met in the UK, if they've heard of Nevada at all, are unlikely to have heard of Reno (I never bother with Fernley; even most Nevadans don't know where it is), and assume that it must be near Las Vegas. When I tell them that is roughly like saying the Glasgow is near London, they were astonished.

(Incidentally, that's not an arbitrary comparison. Per Google Maps, London-Glasgow is 419 miles/674 km and Las Vegas-Reno is 428 miles/688 km.)

Just like lots of Americans have never even heard of Wales, a fair number of people in the UK wouldn't have been able to spot Nevada on a map. Most Americans have heard of England, and I didn't find anyone in the UK who hadn't heard of California, but the rest was a toss up.

Comments

[msconduct]

I'm surprised and disappointed at both sets of misconceptions, but more so at Americans not being to identify an entire country.

[a_cubed]

Whether Wales is a country is an interesting question. It's a constituent nation of the UK, but is it a country?

[msconduct]

The definition of country is very vague, but England, Scotland and Wales, although not separately sovereign states, have all been recognised as countries for a very long time - so not constituent nations, but constituent countries.

[ckd]

"How many countries are in this country?" "Four."

[kevin_standlee]

I'm not. They call the UK "England" the way many people call The Netherlands "Holland."

I lived in Northern California for the greater part of my life. Much of that time I spent behind fan tables at conventions in the Bay Area. When people at conventions in San Jose asked me where I was from, I tried mentioning Yuba City (county seat of Sutter County), rarely getting match. I then would say, "It's about fifty miles north of Sacramento," and more often then you might think, they had no idea where Sacramento, the state capital of California, was. I've never forgotten the person, who claimed to have lived in the Bay Area their entire life, telling me, "I've heard of that — it's near Reno, right?" And they did not appear to be joking.

[msconduct]

To be fair, the Netherlands only have themselves to blame for the Holland thing as they branded themselves with Holland previously as a marketing thing, then decided to remove all references to that and stick to the Netherlands. I know Americans talk about the "Queen of England" all the time, but I just assumed they thought she was the queen *only* of England, not that they were thinking everything in Britain is actually English. Considering the number of Americans who are attached to their Scottish heritage, it just seems weird that so many people have never heard of Scotland.

[kevin_standlee]

It would not surprise me to find that the people attached to their Scottish heritage not realizing that Scotland has been part of the UK for hundreds of years. Also, I suspect that a vast number of Americans, including those of Irish heritage, do not realize that Northern Ireland is a part of the UK; that is, they think that the whole island is "Ireland" and none of it is part of the UK.

Americans are, in general, very vague about geography. They don't even know their own country's geography. There were those folks from the East Coast who seemed to think that if they came to the San Francisco or San Jose Worldcons that Disneyland would be right next door. When we were debating over modifying Worldcon site selection from the former "zone" system to the exclusion area, and those of us from the Western US who said that 500 mi/800 km was about right, the folks from back east were horrified and said that 300 mi/500 km was far enough. I was among those who said, "Don't you want a Worldcon in San Francisco to exclude Los Angeles?" and the easterners were gobsmacked to learn that the two cities were more than 300 miles apart but were still in the same state. Texans, of course, were not surprised or impressed: If you are in Houston and want to drive to Los Angeles, when you get to El Paso, you haven't left the state, but you're halfway to LA.

[a_cubed]

Many Americans apparently have troubling placing the US on a map of the world, though. Maybe some Brits would have the equivalent problem. Whether more Brits could place Nevada on a US map than could place Wales on a UK (or, a European) map would be an interesting question.

[kevin_standlee]

See my story above about Californians not knowing where Sacramento, the state capital, is. Geographic illiteracy is apparently a proud 'Muriken trait.

Geography illiteracy

[belak]

I'm not fond of defending illiteracy of any kind, but I will defend some who took "Geography" in the late 1970s or early 1980s/ That was when especially places within Africa and many other non-US locations, changed with whatever the latest war or uprising that broke out, and literally they could not test kids because at some point within the semester, any answer given MIGHT have been correct. No one learned much about Geography and most seem not to have taken an interest in the intervening years.

As to Californians not knowing where Sacramento is, I have found a lot of people who came to California to work from elsewhere, outside of CA or the US, seem not have a lot of knowledge of the state and no real interest in exploring or learning. It baffles me that people know little about the surrounding area, or region they live in!

I knew some Israeli 20-somethings who had come to the US to intern for the summer. They were given free housing, so their earnings went to exploring. Every weekend they were driving or flying somewhere to learn and enjoy the state and states nearby. Their weeknights were spent learning about the areas and planning their weekend jaunts. I suggested something similar to some US based interns and they were confused as to why they would spend their weekends doing something other than playing video games. Then again, they were interning to learn, but also to help pay for tuition and room and board for school.

[wild_patience]

Gack, the thought of people not knowing where Wales is! Perhaps I find that appalling because I am partially of Welsh descent. I've been there twice, as my father-in-law moved there with his second wife (who was a native of Wales) shortly after our wedding. On the first trip, we were able to visit Jo Walton in Swansea before she moved to Canada and published so many novels. I had been acquainted with her through rec.arts.sf.fandom, so this gives you a clue as to when this was.