Yep, We Need Fewer of Me, All Right

[kevin_standlee]

I have learned that I'm an Abusive Hugo Nazi and that the world would be a better place without people like me.

It is any wonder that even I sometimes get fed up with fandom? Yep, without people like me and the hundreds of other people who knock themselves out running things, she wouldn't have any conventions to go so, nor any Hugo Awards to complain about for that matter.

And remember, I'm one of those people who thinks that we do charge too much for Hugo voting rights, and would be happier to have the cost closer to $20 than $50! I wonder what she would make of the people who like the system exactly the way it is right now and don't see anything negative about it at all?

Maybe I should ask Chaz for some HUGO NAZI ribbons?

Comments

[dancingguy.livejournal.com]

Silly, silly, man. She didn't want to accomplish anything, she just wanted to have a bitch fest. What part of "Of course I am saying that. It's my blog. It is the place where I can say I want EVERYTHING to suit my preferences" didn't tell you that she had no goal beyond bitching and whining?

:-)

[tammylc.livejournal.com]

Kevin, I definitely appreciate everything you do, and understand your desire to educate people about the issues involved. But, that said, I do think you were rather overbearing with that particular poster. It became clear pretty quickly that she was not going to get it and did not want to get it, and given that, I'm not at all surprised that she felt badgered given the length and breadth of comments on the subject. I understand your intention, I really do, but I'm just not sure it was a battle well chosen...

[redneckotaku.livejournal.com]

There are times when you lose the battle of fandom. If you hit someone who is acting like a brick wall, you move on.

[eackerman.livejournal.com]

I've always liked your explanation that you're not paying to vote--you're buying an annual membership in WSFS, and that includes voting privileges.

I'm sorry some people don't appreciate it, but the work done by the Hugo committee is invaluable to the rest of us.

Hmm

[lsanderson.livejournal.com]

When you see strawmen with targets on 'em posted by whinny fans, ittsa trap. Just walk away.

[twilight2000.livejournal.com]

What you do is valuable -- that some folks will insist on refusing to understand is just a part of life.

What's most amusing is that if the Hugo Committee wanted to be *real* punks, they could simply require "attending memberships," not tell anyone and keep it REALLY secret. Silly Woman.

As for those Hugo Nazi Ribbons? I suspect they'd be so popular there'd be a black market for them -- maybe you could fund the *next* Hugos with the proceeds?

Other ribbons that would be Hugely Popular (and folks would line up to wear 'em):
Hugo Secret Police
Secret Masters of Fandom, Hugo Division
Section 31, Hugo Division
Thought Police, Hugo Division
Stargate Command, Hugo Division
(ok -- you get my drift) :>

[kalimac.livejournal.com]

"Nazi" is the ping word here. Nazis persecuted people for status offenses, in their case racial heritage (among other things). But there is no movement to keep Hugo voting rights to the SFnal equivalent of Aryans. Anybody can vote, if they sign up. They don't have to pass a test (though I've seen it only semi-jokingly suggested that a test should be administered to prospective fans).

[jeff-morris.livejournal.com]

Maybe I should ask Chaz for some HUGO NAZI ribbons?

A swastika with rocketship intersecting it?

Hi Kevin

[muneraven.livejournal.com]

Kevin, your rhetoric on my blog yesterday turned from informative, which I truly appreciated, to uncomfortable as you kept on with your need to be RIGHT. But I didn't believe I was wrong and said so. You kept after me. I took refuge in humor, and I think you did not get my jokes at all (that might be my failure or it might be your's or both). Nonetheless, by dinnertime you made me feel attacked and bullied, demanding quick answers to your questions about my credentials for even having an opinion again and again. You made me really uncomfortable. Is that what you wanted?

Is it more important to be right than it is to be decent and respectful to someone?

Now you have linked to my blog here, and I have had to erase several really vile comments this morning telling me what a rotten person I am. I did NOT link to your LJ in my angry post, Kevin, because I didn't want my friends to come here and harrass you. Note that they have not come here to say mean things about you. I wouldn't want that.

By the way, the "Hugo nazi" comment is a reference to the "soup nazi" on the "Seinfeld" show. I probably should have used quote marks or something.

But I was serious about the abusive part. I do think it is bullying to go to a stranger's blog and question her credentials to state a casual opinion about something.

And I think it is abusive to send your friends to my blog to name-call.

[dancingguy.livejournal.com]

Hi muneraven,

You're wrong. (And, you're classless. Nice job deleting my comment on your site rather than responding to it. Oh, and Kevin didn't "send me to name-call." I went over, looked around, and then commented on your behavior. Not on you, on your behavior. Here's another language lesson: me saying "All you want to do is bitch, moan, and whine" is not me calling you a bitch, it is me pointing out that you are merely complaining about things, without evincing any desire to actually fix them.)

The problem wasn't Kevin's "need to be right", the problem was Kevin wanted to have a conversation with someone who could become an ally in the effort to fix a problem, and all you wanted to do was have a rant.

Here is where things went irredeemably wrong "Of course I am saying that. It's my blog. It is the place where I can say I want EVERYTHING to suit my preferences."

It's not possible to have a conversation with someone who's saying that. "Conversation" implies an exchange between two (or more) people, each of who's opinions and concerns are treated as having value. What you said roughly translates to "it's all about me. Everyone else can screw off."

Now, at that point, Kevin should have said "irrational whiny bitch, I'm out of here" (see, that would be me "name calling"). He didn't. Instead, he let himself be dragged down to your level.

It's a classic man - woman problem. Woman just wants to vent, man hears it and wants to "problem solve". Ah, well.

[trinsf.livejournal.com]

I'd like to suggest that "HUGO NAZI" ribbons would be tacky and inappropriate, as inappropriate as the OP's use of the term. I'd also like to say that you're in the right now, but if you keep going on about women, I'm gonna have to thwap you all. :-) The OP is out of line to try and make this about male/female relations. Don't fall into her trap by parsing the situation the same way, please.

Godwin's Law

[pip-r-lagenta.livejournal.com]

Godwin's Law applied, in this case, until she re-edited her blog to replace "Nazi" with "Dude". Now, there's no getting around it: you're totally screwed. Sorry, man. You did a lot of good work in your day, but that's all over now. Can I have your stereo?

[caindog.livejournal.com]

Congratulations on your promotion to "Main Hugo Dude", Kevin! I mean, why else would the original blog post have been edited yet again to change your "Abusive Hugo (alleged-Seinfeld-reference)" nickname to "Main Hugo Dude" unless the Galactic Council had finally come through with that promotion?

[lindadee.livejournal.com]

You keep saying that we're charging for Hugo voting rights, but I don't see it as that. We are paying to attending (or support) a convention with which voting rights are associated. In fact, the price goes up closer to the convention, and costs the most after voting rights (except site selection) have expired. So it can't be the cost of voting.

Linda

Hugo Geek

[hazelchaz]

Annoying Hugo Geek might be less neeedlessly inflammatory. (I see others have already alluded to Godwin.)

And it would allow for the companion ribbon Annoyed Hugo Geek.

[gridlore.livejournal.com]

My father was in Coventry when the Nazis leveled it. He had nightmares until the day he died about that night.

My grandfathers both saw firsthand the death camps.

And she called you a Nazi?

Kevin, you are one of the people who is "real" to me. What you have done for fandom deserves praise and a fan guest of honor slot at a worldcon. This bitch is nothing and no one.