Minor Culture Clash

[kevin_standlee]

I've not attended many conventions in the Midwest, other than some Worldcons, one Wiscon, and one World Fantasy Con (Minneapolis). So I'm not immersed in the regional conventional traditions, and it came as a bit of a surprise to me to see just how alcohol-focussed the parties that we found here at MARCon seemed to be. It's not that we begrudge anyone their drinks. Lisa and I aren't anti-drinking; we just do not enjoy it ourselves. We actually find it a bit off-putting to have photo ID demanded of us at the door of parties.

(If I were serving alcohol, I would do my ID check at the point of service, not at the door. But if you make the basic assumption that "the only people I want in my party are drinkers," it makes more sense to do the ID check at the door. That does screen Lisa and me out, though.)

Anyway, we did go up to the 11th floor, where we encountered the closing half-hour or so of the Millennicon party, which was more our speed, with relative peace and quiet and interesting conversation. But they were running a nominal 7 PM to 9 PM and we were there after their official closing time, so we weren't able to stay long.

If there were parties promoting other conventions or bids, we couldn't find them. We looked on the party boards on 5 and 6 and downstairs, but didn't see anything.

The Dr Who Columbus party had an interesting way of handling their door-prize drawing. Instead of tickets, when you entered, they gave you a mailing-label sized sticker with their name, logo, and your door prize number on it. We didn't stick around for the the drawing because the party was too crowded for us, but I thought it was a clever idea and may use it if I ever again run a party with door prizes.

Surprised that there weren't as many people around on the party floors as we had been given to believe was usual around here, we headed back downstairs, which is where we found plenty of people in the post-Masquerade socializing, Con Suite, hotel bar, etc. The Con Suite is located in a large ground floor function room and therefore doesn't require queuing for the four elevators, and I can see that this would be attractive.

We had a number of nice fun conversations with various con members about different subjects. We wandered the halls and admired other people's costumes. (We'd long since changed into more comfortable clothes, I'm afraid. Lisa says I should wear my WSFS uniform to sign autographs tomorrow.)

A couple of the places in the food court were still open, even after 11 PM. Lisa got a gyro, but it unfortunately was so drowned in mayonnaise that when she attempted to get rid of the may, it spilled all over the floor. I probably shouldn't have bought a mushroom swiss hamburger, but I liked the one I'd had several hours earlier so much that I got another one.

As we headed up the elevators, we crossed paths with Rebecca Forstadt and her boyfriend yet again. Turns out that if we had walked up to the same convenience store as we did last night -- Lisa says she's too tired to do that -- we probably would have met them at about the same place as the last two times.

I'm afraid we're back in the room before midnight, though. As I mentioned earlier, travel fatigue has been catching up to Lisa, and there just didn't seem to be a whole lot of things in which I was interested tonight. As I grow older, my ability to pick up conversations in loud rooms declines, so I'm not so fond of parties full of loud music as I might once have been. Guess I'm just getting to be an old Phart. Oh, wait a minute, I am one, aren't I? It says so on that Get Out of Worldcon Free Card.

Comments

Alcohol at con parties in the MidWest

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

I blame Midwestcon for this grand tradition.

Its definitely honoured in Detroit where all the consuites and many of the parties serve alcohol.

I do admit we do not drink as much as we did in the past, thankfully.

[howeird]

ID at the door is a legal requirement in some states. Don't know if it still is, but used to be in Washington State no one under 21 was allowed anywhere alcohol was served.

[teroyks.livejournal.com]

If I were organizing a party where alcohol was served (and I have, including the Finnish party at Interaction), I'd prefer checking ID at the door too, for a couple of reasons:

- the point of service is extremely hectic, and adding good ID checking there would slow things down considerably

- usually the assumption is that those who want a drink want several, so checking ID at the door means you only need to do it once (for persons who stay in the room, of course)

The same thing howeird mentioned has at least been a requirement here too in the past (I don't think it applies any more), so even those who don't drink are used to having their ID checked at the door, and I have to admit it wouldn't even have occurred to me that some might dislike it. On the other hand, the custom nowadays is to check IDs only if someone who definitely looks underaged tries to get a drink, so things are much more relaxed than they used to be.

[ann-totusek.livejournal.com]

WRT booze in the ConSuite, I've always been surprised that cons with limited budgets would use their $$ on booze instead of improving the rest of the con. A LARGE proportion of people don't drink, it seems odd to spend so much money on them when you could be providing more food, better space, or somesuch to benefit more people. I'd prefer to put the onus of booze provision on the parties if they are so inclined to do so. Alcohol free parties are also just fine.

I am of the opinion that ID should NOT be required at the door, but at the point of service, drinks should be dispensed on a one drink at a time per person basis, and that parties should be required to see that alcohol does not go wandering out the door of their parties- those last two make it more difficult for a 22 year old to hand off drinkies to an underage person. I also object considerably to ID'ing at the door- not because ID shouldn't be gotten when someone is drinking, but because it prevents anyone underage from being able to attend a con party when alcohol is being served. Goodness knows that alcohol is going to be in con space anyway, so it's not like we're protecting them from being around drinkers. My major problem with it comes from attending Archon a couple years ago. One of the girls in our group was 17 or 18, and I don't believe that there was a single non-drinking party at the con. I don't think it's fair to expect a person to pay for a full adult membership and then deny them access to any aspect of the convention. If you're going to require your parties to ID at the door and refuse admittance to anyone underage for drinking, everyone underage should pay for a child membership, because they're not being granted full access to the convention.

I'm not sure how the carding at the door laws apply to non-commercial parties and have often wondered about that.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

All extremely good points, especially the fact that it excludes adults from attending parties. I started going to conventions when I was 18. Ghod knows how I'd taken it if every single party said, "No ID, no entry."

[laminahospes.livejournal.com]

I've noticed a couple of patterns here in the South. I started attending cons at 16, and have been drinking at them since I was 17, and was only denied access to a party once (it was a semi-private affair, and as I was both unknown and underaged, I'd call it wise to refuse me entry). Here in NC, though, the alcohol has always come exclusively from the parties, not from the consuite (this may well change soon, but it's usually a hotel issue). Oddly enough, I was never carded for any of the times I tried to drink underage, and the only person who ever asked me my age would always say, "You're 21 now, right?" (starting when I was 17 -- I was kind of dismayed that he didn't ask when I finally turned 21). Unfortunately, as all my convention attendance until I turned 21 was in-state, I can't say what it was like elsewhere.

From my experience with conventions in Tennessee, they mostly serve bheer in the consuite, and card you when you get your badge (giving a different badge to underaged members), then again with each drink (as required by law). Only one party I've attended carded at the door -- some of the others carded by the drink, some not at all.

I've only been to one convention in Virginia (and that one repeatedly), but I was not carded by any of the parties, and there was no bheer in the consuite.

The one convention I attended in Alabama was a somewhat smaller affair, and there were only two parties (one of which I helped host). Both had liquor and bheer, neither carded.

The one convention I've been to in Kentucky was ConCave, which was probably a bit out of the ordinary, as it's a complete relaxacon. Not only was there bheer in the consuite, but liquor, too. I think they were color-coding the badges. I'm not sure if anyone was being asked for ID, though, as I wasn't in the mood to drink heavily that weekend. The parties seemed to let the alcohol flow freely.

Needless to say, I was somewhat surprised when I attended my first northern convention and found that not only was there no bheer in the consuite (not that I expected it, having heard they don't have very lavish consuites up north), but the only party with alcohol was the semi-private SFWA affair. I suspect that as I leave my home region more often, I'll discover more and more patterns.

[kshandra]

I also object considerably to ID'ing at the door- not because ID shouldn't be gotten when someone is drinking, but because it prevents anyone underage from being able to attend a con party when alcohol is being served.

The parties here at BayCon that are serving alcohol are mostly checking ID at the door...and then issuing a token that marks who can and cannot have booze (a hand-stamp at the one party where I actually ran the gauntlet last night; self-adhesive wristbands are also popular).

I'm not sure how the carding at the door laws apply to non-commercial parties and have often wondered about that.

I actually camp with a bar at Burning Man, where carrying your ID is a really good way to lose it in the middle of 50 square miles of dust. For the state of Nevada, as long as our bartenders make a good-faith effort (asking the specific question "Are you over the age of 21 and legal to drink in this state?" and ONLY accepting the word "yes" as an answer), the onus is now upon the drinker to prove their age if asked by a member of law enforcement. YMMV (your municipality may vary).

[nolly.livejournal.com]

Most of the Baycon parties would happily let you not show an ID and not receive the stamp/wristband/etc., if you aren't drinking. Not so Seattle in 2011, which wanted to see ID regardless. I had to leave, as I did not have ID on me, since I don't drink, and was costumed with very limited cargo space.

[flick.livejournal.com]

(Brit disclaimer)

A LARGE proportion of people don't drink

Really? I'd be genuinely interested in stats on it: do you have any, either for con-goers or for the US population as a whole?

[petrea-mitchell.livejournal.com]

A few months ago (maybe leading up to the Christmas/New Year's party season), the Wall Street Journal ran a story on recent surveys showing that a slight majority (54%? Can't remember exactly) of drinking-age US residents either never drink, or drink only once or twice a year. The exact numbers of non-drinkers vs. occasional drinkers weren't given.

For con-goers, I can only offer the data point that my SO and I are both non-drinkers. Him because he figures being Scotch-Irish with a dash of Cherokee gives him too good a shot at alcoholism, and me because alcohol just tastes hideous to me.

[desperance.livejournal.com]

[Brit disclaimer]

a slight majority (54%? Can't remember exactly) of drinking-age US residents either never drink, or drink only once or twice a year

*blinks, in a very startled-Brit fashion*

(I'm finding this whole conversation fascinating, in a culture-clash sort of way; a British con takes place almost entirely in the bar...)

[twilight2000.livejournal.com]

Interestingly, we have something generally referred to as "bar-con" here in the States as well -- and it occurs at just about any con that's in a hotel that has a bar. Amusingly, those folks tend to be the most sober in the con -- it's most often (in my experience) pros, semi-pros and pros-to-be all hanging out in the bar and talking shop.

[daveon.livejournal.com]

The major difference that I've observed is that Brit cons don't have anything really resembling the con suite. We just all gather in one of, typically, many bars.

I would guess that the proportion of British fans who drink is significantly higher than else where.

[flick.livejournal.com]

Wow: I wouldn't have thought it would be so high!

[rono-60103.livejournal.com]

At the recent Chicago area cons, at least where I've paid attention -- mostly Capricon last February -- not all of the parties serving alcohol carded at the door. Only one of the parties promoting an event carded at the door. The rest that did were more or less what I'd term "drinking parties," in that as near as I could tell the main purpose of the party was to serve alcohol and create a bar-like atmosphere. Of course, I didn't bother digging out my card to do more than look through the door, so I could be wrong.

At least two other parties, one actually a club suite, had alcohol available but let everyone in the door only watching, or carding, at the point of service.

As pointed out before, some of the requirement to card either at the door, or near the point of service, comes from the various local laws regarding the serving of alcohol and the liability of making it available to underage persons.

[debgeisler.livejournal.com]

Last night, we helped with a Reno in 2011 bid party (since we had a room, that party was here), and I'd asked before we came to Balticon if the parties were wet or dry. We were told dry, so that's what we did.

Then last night, we found out that "closed" parties could have alcohol -- for various values of closed. I didn't really regret not having alcohol in this instance, since we wanted a very open party.

During the evening, I'd duck outside every now and then for a cigarette, and there was a young man (at one point, he declared he was 22) smoking out there who was hitting every alcohol-laden party here.

Over the course of several hours, I saw him out there...getting more and more drunk. Declaiming poetry. Becoming louder, and more intrusive. And I was very, very glad that he wasn't my problem.

Like you, I'm a wuss...and that bothers me not at all...

[mkillingworth.livejournal.com]

My experience has been that beer in consuites is very much a regional thing. Most Southern US cons tend to have it freely available. And of course the whole idea of drinking in room parties promoting bids, etc, is that if you get the punters lubricated enough, they are more likely to part with their money. ID checking at the door vs at point of service is going to vary from one local authority to another. I don't think that you can rationalize 18 to 21 year olds not being allowed access to the entire convention, for the purpose of paying less. The parties are not put on by the convention itself, but rather by the specific groups that they are promoting. They can attend all of the convention events.

One solution used commonly in the South is to have different coloured badges for the under drinking age adults. That means that ID checking gets done at registration. Of course, that doesn't prevent people from swapping badges later on.

I suspect that more fans drink than you actually realise.

[ann-totusek.livejournal.com]

I would make the argument that a convention membership subsidizes the parties, even if indirectly. Unless you're throwing a closed room party (perhaps not on the party floor) you have an obligation to the attendees to permit them entrance, much like a union negotiated contract usually applies to all employees, not just union members. Also, at that Archon there really wasn't jack-all for anyone to do to socialize in the evenings except the room parties. There wasn't good socialization space anywhere else at that time, unless you didn't mind an ibcredibly loud dance or a consuite (see below) and there were no conversation panels at that point. The consuite had no effective difference from the parties, which is what made it particularly stupid- they were serving beer there, free, with the only limitation being that you be of age. Made the consuite a rather unpleasant place to be- I spent a great deal of the time holding a guy's head over a garbage can as he puked. I wouldn't have wanted to spend social time in there, and had even less inclination to eat any of the munchies after what I saw going on in there. Yuck.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

I suspect that more fans drink than you actually realise.

Eh? My default assumption is that everyone drinks besides me and Lisa. The non-drinking person is the exception to me. Remember, I'm not anti-alcohol -- it's simply a blind spot to me.

Lisa points out that the League of Evil Geniuses are heavily alcohol-positive and yet are parties she liked attending. The loeg parties over the past six years have been legendary. (The final party was this past weekend at BayCon. Lisa regrets not being able to be in two places at once.) But they serve good stuff, and the emphasis of the party isn't "drink until you throw up."

[timill]

I think Marcia was picking up on Ann's "A LARGE proportion of people don't drink" above, rather than anything you'd written.

[kproche.livejournal.com]

We've also thrown the party twice sans alcohol, once in Toronto and once in Glasgow, because we simply could not afford to do so in either Canada or Scotland.

A major focus of the LoEG parties was the gallery (designed to spark conversation) and, of course, a bit of CC26 promotion. Both of those work quite well without ethanolic lubrication. It just happens that we both like sipping champagne, and, I must admit, had some great fun coming up with "experimental substances" for folks to try in very small quantities.

We started checking IDs and issuing wristbands at the door when the party started becoming very popular; it just was not practical to handle it at the point of service because that was already a choke point in the traffic flow.

[spacecrab.livejournal.com]

I submit a radical idea to you: it's not really whether parties serve alcohol or not, it's who shows up wishing to attend and what expectations/ideas of "fun" are possessed by the hosts and available attendees. I could name you several s-f conventions where alcohol is served at parties - and it plays a minor role as a social lubricant for people who really want to talk to each other. The ID issue is handled in a low-key way.

What you wind up with is partly a function of the way the entire convention is marketed and programmed -- which affects the nature of the attending population and the night time party environment.

[chocolatescifi.livejournal.com]

It might be jetlag.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

Nah, if it were jetlag, it would work the opposite direction -- Midnight EDT is only 9 PM Pacific by my body clock.

[chocolatescifi.livejournal.com]

Okay, then how about a tumor?

(I can already hear you channeling Arnold for your reply: "It's not a tumor!"

[redneckotaku.livejournal.com]

Balticon doesn't have alcohol at their parties. Anime cons don't have open parties like Science Fiction cons. Parties are one of the reasons I go to science fiction conventions along with gaming and friends I do get to see. I like that their isn't alcohol at Balticon parties. It helps keep things civilized.

[daveon.livejournal.com]

Again a Brit blinks... Why on Earth would alcohol make something uncivilised?