That's Fandom for You

[kevin_standlee]

I have, possibly ill-advisedly, waded in to the LJ discussion of Further Confusion's Elevator Management, or more properly, lack of it. Since I had first-hand experience of the exact same building under crush-load conditions in 2002 (albeit without one-sixths of the attendees in fursuits), I thought I would suggest the things that would work, and specifically the Elevator Party Host idea. While some people get it, others immediately yelled "Elevator Nazi!" because of course anything that restricts their right to be an inconsiderate jerk is a Bad Thing.

Also, suggesting other things that have worked, like programming one (out of six) elevators to be an express to the top floor was immediately over-generalized to an assumption that all elevators would be so programmed, and that people with wheelchairs would be told to take the stairs.

Discussing Elevator Party Host training -- half an hour being briefed on how to host an elevator party, and something primarily designed to ward off the "my job is to boss people around" mentality of "security" -- seems to have somehow morphed in some people's minds into "hundreds of hours of specialized and expensive instruction on how elevators work." News flash: "Training" doesn't always mean "vast amounts of time" and "expensive." A short briefing on how things should be handled is "training," too, and having Tom Whitmore give you the low-down on how to deal with elevator lobby crowds is, or should be, an eye-opener.

I shouldn't be surprised. It's Fandom, after all, which is full of people who will over-generalize and assume that of course anything done will be done badly. But I also was taken slightly aback as the assumption that time always equals money, which essentially equates People points (volunteers) with Money points. Anyone who has played If I Ran the Zoo... Con knows that Money and People are not as freely fungible as that. Oh, sometimes, rarely, they are. If you have gobs of money, you can possibly hire paid staff to do things for you; however, they're unlikely to do the job as well as motivated, well-trained volunteers.

I'm feeling old today; what I'm seeing is a younger generation of fandom having to learn the same lessons I learned twenty years ago, and rejecting advice from old fogeys who obviously know nothing at all about genre conventions and can't possibly understand how challenging it is to run an event in the Fairmont. Sigh.

Comments

[kalimac.livejournal.com]

Y'know, I went and read all of that, and I recognize it's frustrating. But it's not a patch on the fantastic over-reactions and sheer blistering rudeness I get from someone very close to you. And she wonders why people dislike her so.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

I don't speak for her, but I think I understand her reaction; however, I won't discuss it here.

[bovil.livejournal.com]

There's a great level of stupid on the FC community at the moment. It will die down when there's another con for folks to complain about.

It's better to address solutions to problems like that with the board.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah, but you also need people to volunteer. I could even step up and help organize, but without the people willing to do the shifts -- and they have to be the right kind of people, too, not the "I like to order people around" crowd -- it won't work.

[yourbob.livejournal.com]

I'm with bovil. Step back and enjoy the fact you can just listen. There are a lot of us drama queens in the FC crowd right now.

[bovil.livejournal.com]

Oh, I get that completely. It's difficult, unless you go for the "elevator party hosts" model to get the right sort of people willing to give up hours of prime convention time.

Oddly enough, while I know there was definite elevator pressure, it was much lighter (except at bad times, like right after major events) than one might expect. I don't think I had to wait for more than 3 elevators, but I was smart enough to, when possible, catch upward elevators on first or just jump a convenient down and go for the ride.

[nojay.livejournal.com]

There are only certain times at big conventions when traffic control at the elevator lobby is really necessary, but they can usually be predicted in advance by a savvy committee and scheduled. As Kevin says the hosts should only be on duty for 30 minutes each and then get rotated out; it's a higher-energy job than, say, badge-checking. MOI, does Furcon operate a Gopher Mom system, with a designated person who can tell a gopher to go off shift NOW! ?

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

The think I found when doing the job was that it was high energy and I enjoyed doing it so much that I had to be ordered out because I didn't see the signs of exhaustion, being hopped up on adrenaline. I have a strong stomach and don't get motion sickness, but 30 minutes in fully-loaded elevators means you're not getting enough fresh air, and probably will show signs of carbon dioxide poisoning if not pulled out soon enough. That's why I suggest you rotate people between car duty and lobby duty. And I think it's worthwhile to have someone "working the line" explaining what's going on and reassuring everyone that eventually everyone will get there. And probably also doing some prioritization work as well.

I can't possibly be the only one who has observed that the traffic flows better in an elevator when someone holds it "on the button" than when they stick their hand across the entrance, can I? That's why I end up repeating at all stops, "I've got the doors" and variations thereof.

[kalimac.livejournal.com]

I can't possibly be the only one who has observed that the traffic flows better in an elevator when someone holds it "on the button" than when they stick their hand across the entrance, can I?

Why is that? I'd guess: it leaves more room for people to move through the door, and the door closes faster once you take your finger off the button than it does once you remove your arm. But that's just a guess.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

It's the leaves-more-room part that I think makes the difference. When you lean into the doorway to hold it open, you're constricting the flow, even if only psychologically.

Some elevators even listen to the door-close button, so when you stop at a floor where only one person enters or leaves, you can push door-close before the automatic closure, saving a second or two here and there.

[lisa-marli.livejournal.com]

The thing is, after the main events they HAD elevator control people, and they were doing the best they could. It probably would have helped to have a separate line for Suits, but that wasn't well marked.
And, the elevator control person was telling us to grab any elevator going in any direction to get to our final destination.
Oh, well, people will eventually get the timing down.

[yourbob.livejournal.com]

"Oh, well, people will eventually get the timing down"

Yeah, but there will always be new people screwing it up.

[redneckotaku.livejournal.com]

That is a good idea for Anime USA. Anime USA tries to encourage people to use the stairs as much as possible. I will point this to the expected 2010 Convention Chair for Anime USA. He may want to try this.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

Buried in the comment thread at FurCon was a little exchange that I think is important. I boils down to (paraphrasing): "I never had any problems with the elevators (except when they were broken), so putting staff in the elevators wouldn't help."

Except that the reason you recruit Elevator Party Hosts is to prevent the elevators from breaking down by reducing the abuse to which we put them. Specifically, fans will, if not restrained, overload elevators. While that's okay for one group, if you keep doing it for long periods of time, the elevators will first slow down, then break entirely.

EPHs limit the loads in the elevator -- usually about ten more-or-less normal-sized people -- per load. This irritates the person who can't get in because it looks like there is enough room, but really, it's just like the metering lights on freeway on-ramps: Sure, it looks like you could squeeze more people in, but if you keep doing it, the whole system crashes due to an overload.

Most people don't realize this. I certainly didn't until I was taught some of the facts of elevator life from people who had to live through the mess at Atlanta in 1986, where overloaded elevators slid down (slowly) 40 stories through the open atrium to come to a soft landing on the safety springs.

[lunarvixenfx.livejournal.com]

Quote:
I'm feeling old today; what I'm seeing is a younger generation of fandom having to learn the same lessons I learned twenty years ago, and rejecting advice from old fogeys who obviously know nothing at all about genre conventions and can't possibly understand how challenging it is to run an event in the Fairmont. Sigh

This is HUGE problem with out westernized culture IMO.. we do not respect our "elders" enough. And I don't just mean people who are older, I believe that experience is apart of that. And if someone has Been There Done That.. it would only make SENSE that the people who have not BTDT would listen to those in the know.. but alas.. our inexperienced youngins continue to be ignoratn and unwilling to learn from outside experience.

I should note that I consider myself somewhere in the middle.. I'm not that experienced but certainly am not a noob anymore either.

There's that comment in Men in Black.. about a Person being smart.. but People are dumb.. could it be true with Fandom.. a Fan is smart, but Fandom is dumb?

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that, twenty-plus years ago, I was just as bad. (Some of you reading these messages remember me from the late 1980s and I expect you'd agree.) I made some mistakes that probably could have been avoided if I'd been somewhat less pig-headed about listening to advice from people who had already Seen The Elephant. But sometimes the only want to learn that the wall is hard is to beat your head against it, I guess.

[lunarvixenfx.livejournal.com]

I must be the anomaly.. or something.. because when I started getting involved.. I kept asking those who had come before me what they did, how they handled things... to help me decide how I wanted to handle things.. sadly.. the majority of people I asked for help from.. didn't give me the time of day.

[garyomaha.livejournal.com]

(slightly off topic, but only slightly)
I think I must have been the only one in the world who played, and enjoyed, "Sim Tower" because the game seemed to quickly disappear and (as far as I know) never had a version 2. It was largely based on elevator theory, although one had only so much control. I miss that game. (Yes, as a young child, I wanted to be an Elevator Operator when I grew up. Yes, back then we had Elevator Operators.)

re: That's Fandom for You

[glenn-glazer.livejournal.com]

"I have, possibly ill-advisedly, waded in to the LJ discussion of Further Confusion's Elevator Management, or more properly, lack of it...
I'm feeling old today; what I'm seeing is a younger generation of fandom having to learn the same lessons I learned twenty years ago, and rejecting advice from old fogeys who obviously know nothing at all about genre conventions and can't possibly understand how challenging it is to run an event in the Fairmont."

If you didn't like crottled greeps, what did you order them for? :)

Re: That's Fandom for You

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

Yep. Why do you think I used the icon I did?

[darrelx.livejournal.com]

I have found that furry fandom is inherently immature and unreasonable about some of the stupidest things... even more immature than the teens who attend Anime conventions, if you can believe that!

That's why I don't play in that crowd anymore.

I think it has to do with the mentality "Furry as a lifestyle" beckoning people to the fandom who already want to rebel against set rules in the first place. The majority of members in other fandoms know that the fandom is an addition to their life, not their entire life as they know it. The majority of furry fans, however, think that being furry is "everything."

Stick with discussing things directly with the Board and you will bypass a lot of the B.S.